Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Kaya Cast the podcast for cannabis businesses looking to launch, grow, and scale their operations.
Tommy Truong: Man, I had no idea you are what we said, quote unquote balls deep in the plant, growing kind of side of the industry.
Darrin Potter: Yeah, I've been, uh, I've been in the industry for a long time and I've pretty much been balls deep ever since. Long before it was a legal industry, so, uh. This is, uh, this has been a, uh, nonstop 24 hour adventure for, I don't know, going on 20 years It feels like.
Tommy Truong: So for those that are listening that have never heard you before, can you maybe elaborate on some of the different areas or some of the different problems that you're looking to solve in the industry with your different, um, ventures?
Darrin Potter: Sure, sure. Um, you know, maybe I'll talk a little bit about how I came here and how I got to this. Um, [00:01:00] I'm not gonna go back into like legacy growing days or anything like that, but, um. You know, I've been in the cannabis, cannabis industry for a while. Started companies, build companies, sold companies. And a lot of times, um, you know, when you're with a large cannabis company, they can have, uh, changes in governance or changes in ownership, which, you know, can oftentimes lead to people being laid off, right?
Some large swaths, 30, 40 people sometimes, right? If they maybe didn't appropriate their, their, their cash appropriately. Um. So, you know, having experienced those types of things, I told myself I don't want to be an employee of, you know, a large cannabis company that may be volatile, I guess is the best way to put it.
So, you know, I was already. Had a foot into a company called Terra Vera and had some ownership, had shares in it. And the CEO, who's a great friend of mine, his name's [00:02:00] Carlos Pere, brilliant person, awesome person. And he's like, would you wanna participate in an active role with the company? And I was like, absolutely.
Like I've been using the product since 20 18, 20 19. Um, and so I, I got involved and, and that was that. And you know, I'd been. Trying to help growers across the country to eliminate fungal pathogens, to eliminate pest pressure and do it in a very safe manner using amino acids, non petroleum-based products, all natural products safe where you don't have to tyvek up and do all that fun stuff, uh, which, which sucks, you know, having to put on spray suits and go spray for a couple hours.
It's horrible. But, um. And, you know, kind of at the same time, a really good friend of mine who I've done built greenhouses and done work with over, you know, probably, I don't know the last probably five years prior to that, said, Hey, I'm starting my own company. He had, he had been working for a greenhouse company for probably about eight or 10 years, and then he [00:03:00] like selling greenhouses and uh, and then he moved into building greenhouses for probably about five years.
And, uh, the company that he was working with. You know, volatility, they actually leverage 'em, leverage themselves too much in the cannabis industry. And you know how it goes, sometimes cannabis people don't pay, pay their bills. So, you know, he is like, I've gotta start my own company. And he was very focused on the ornamental side, but knowing my relationships in cannabis and wanting to work in that, uh, regard as well, you know, he is like, do you wanna partner up with me?
So I took equity and became a shareholder in, uh, cultivation structures and equipment, CSE Grow. And so that was really what I was doing for some time and some years, and consulting in cannabis, you know, going to different growers around the country, helping them fix their problems. A lot of times what I do has to do with, I always get the calls on pest pressure, pest pressure, or fungal pathogen pressure.
I got pm, I got petritis. I can't pass my t, my, uh, COAs, I'm, I, I'm failing for aspergillus. So it always [00:04:00] kind of started with, okay, let's work on this. But then when you're there, I've found that usually they have massive environmental issues, right? They either undersize their mechanical or they don't have the right airflow, or they're exposed to elements.
I mean, you name it, all kinds of different things. So I was like, well, you know, you gotta fix all these things as well. You can't just, you know, have basically. An open air indoor grow kind of scenario, right? Or you can't have an undersized mechanical system or DHE and be trying to grow in a 190% relative humidity and expecting amazing results.
Um, so you know, that's where I want, I kind of create an ecosystem of, all right, I'm gonna help you fix your, build your grow. We do a lot of ground up, but we do a ton of retrofit. But I'm also gonna provide you with tools so that you can maintain a fungal pathogen pressure, you know, that is below a threshold so you can be successful.
So that's kind of where that came [00:05:00] into be. Uh, and then, you know, along that path through a couple years, one of my other good friends reached out to me. He is like, Hey, I want to get a cannabis license in Florida. I wanna start this company. You know, I've got some friends, I've got family, I've got money.
Are you interested? And I was like, Florida. I was like, yeah, that's my home state. Of course I'm interested, you know, I'd already actually started a cannabis company in Florida and sold it, uh, grow Healthy. I didn't wanna sell it, to be honest with you. Uh, just, you know, I wasn't a board of director and I didn't have the, the equity to hold onto the company.
I certainly didn't have the money. Um, so they sold the company. I stayed with it for a while. But, you know, kind of one of those scenarios where you have a, you know. Uh, some guys from Wall Street come in and buy a company and you know, we're gonna be rich and they don't know how to operate a company, right?
So, at least in the cannabis sector. Um, so yeah, I was excited to be like, yeah, I'll hope you get a license. I'll consult, I'll do this. And then, you know, three years later here I am with a cannabis company. I'm at the office right now. I've got [00:06:00] an amazing crew. And that whole ecosystem kind of still feeds itself and comes together.
I build greenhouses and I build indoor grow for myself. We do it for other people. And then I also, at my own farm, I use Terra Vera as a solution to eliminate fungal pathogens, ensure that I have clean product for the shelves. I don't have to do a, use a rad source. No offense to Rad Source or anybody out there radiating their, their product.
It's just, it wasn't my. It wasn't part of my ethos. I wanted to be able to produce really clean quality products. Something that I would smoke, to be honest with you. 'cause I'll be honest, I smoke weed
Tommy Truong: I, I feel like greenhouses get a bad rap in, in certain sectors of the industry because, you know, people say, oh, it's a green, it's greenhouse weed. Like, you know what I mean? You, you probably hear that all the time.
Darrin Potter: all the time.
Tommy Truong: What is the advantage of setting up a greenhouse and can greenhouses be effective in any climate?
Darrin Potter: So I'm gonna start with, [00:07:00] you can grow high quality weed cannabis. Marijuana, however you want to call it. Everybody's gotta, people get so sensitive these days, it's like all of a sudden legacy came up 'cause black market was so bad and now it's like, I don't even know. I don't really care what people call it.
Um, so growing cannabis outdoors can be done extremely well certain times of year. Right. It's not a year round kind of scenario, and you get a different expression from the plant when you grow it under the sun and you know, you can prove this in a COA, you can prove it with your cannabinoid profile and your terpene profile and put them side by side.
You're gonna get a different expression because you just have a larger spectrum right from the sun. So, and then in a greenhouse, same scenario, you can grow really high quality cannabis in a greenhouse, specifically certain times of year, depending and, and pretty much anywhere, right? I've built greenhouses in New York, Minnesota, Florida, [00:08:00] Colorado, Oregon.
I mean, we, we built 4 million square feet across the us so. I promise you it can be done. Now the issue is, is when people try to take a dilapidated, crappy greenhouse that was used for, I don't know, you name it, ornamentals or something like that, and I've had this number of times where people are like, Hey, I want to add lights in, uh, blackout and light depth and benches and all this.
I'm like. Dude, you don't even have a sidewall. You're literally hoop to hoop from ground to ground. I can't add all this into your greenhouse. It's not possible. I was like, you might as well just build something new, you know? And then everybody's like gets hard up on, on, you know, the cost and I'm like, well, I can't control that.
Like, I can control so much. I can control our margins, but like, you know, I can't build a state-of-the-art environmentally controlled, CEA greenhouse. For a hundred dollars a square foot. Right? You know, it's like you're gonna, if you want controls, if you want irrigation, if you want, uh, you know, [00:09:00] exhaust fans and all of these things.
And then if you want a chiller, you know, and if you really want to control the environment, price tag just keeps going up. So you can 100% grow amazing cannabis in greenhouses, but you have to understand the, the limitations. You also have to have a good operator, right? I mean, just because you have this Ferrari greenhouse, if you don't have somebody who knows how to operate it and understands plant science and understands IPM and understands just the overall controls of a greenhouse, yeah, you're not gonna be successful.
But you can't blame the greenhouse. You can blame. Genetics, you can blame the grower. A, a lot of times growers will blame the greenhouse, by the way, which I'm not gonna say that greenhouses, I've, I've been in plenty that have plenty of problems because the investment, you know, into the greenhouse was limited, is the best way I can put it.
Now, an indoor. So I love growing indoor. I've grown indoor [00:10:00] since 2000, I don't know, one, two, 2000, one or two. So that's when I got into growing indoor cannabis. Um. And, and here are the drawbacks, right? So lighting lights are expensive, especially if you're going LEDs. I mean, you can spend anywhere between five, $600 on an LED all the way up to $1,800 on an LED, right?
So there's that. And then you gotta think about your operational cost, right? You're gonna, now you're adding air conditioning, you're adding controls, and. You're, you're basically growing cannabis in a lab, right? So your costs are significantly higher. I was an advocate of, of always growing indoors. Mind you, I grew outdoor for a long time too.
I used to, when I was like 13 years old, I was putting plants out in Florida like August, September, and then harvesting them in October, November. So you can, you can definitely do it in Florida, in, in a lot of places. Um. I loved growing indoor [00:11:00] weed when I was, you know, in my twenties. 'cause I was like, oh, this is the most beautiful thing in the world and I can pretty much completely stop doing everything outdoor, uh, when I was like 22, 20, 21, 22.
Um, I'm 46 now just for reference. But, uh, you know, and when I got to Colorado, um, you know, we all, everybody grew indoors, right? That was the thing in Colorado, but. When I got to Florida, and it was a biomass production environment, right when I got Florida in 20, back to Florida in 2015, it was a low THC. So they didn't have, um, and it was all oil, right?
It was all vape pens and tinctures and stuff like that. And I'm like, why would we grow all this indoors just to squeeze the juice? I was like, we need to grow in greenhouses. We need to grow in hoop houses. We need to grow in anything. 'cause I'm just extracting at this point. And back then most everything was, you know, hotdog water.
It was all distillate. It wasn't. Not, not very many people were doing true solventless, right? They were doing CO2 solventless. But, um, [00:12:00] so I guess the gist of it, you can grow really high quality in any environment. If you're doing it at the right time of year, you've got the right inputs and you understand the process.
Uh, I'm not gonna sit here and tell anybody that, you know, you, you're not gonna get quality product out of a greenhouse or outdoor for that matter, because I've seen it. You know, for decades at this point.
Tommy Truong: What's different and too anonymous, like me growing in a greenhouse versus indoor.
Darrin Potter: I mean, you know. So growing. It's, it is funny 'cause you have different scenarios. So I'm, I, I'm actually growing right now indoor and I'm growing in a greenhouse, you know, because like I said, it's like I, I'm a, a fan of growing indoor for that high quality flower year round, but in a greenhouse I'll produce high quality flower.
In a, in a specific timeframe, right? Of the year when the environment's right and the rest of the year, I'm [00:13:00] just growing to squeeze juice, right? Um, but the biggest differences in, in managing a greenhouse is the environmental factors, right? Like I have to take into consideration when it's hot outside, when it's humid outside, you know, the photo period.
When there's long days and short days. I've gotta take all these different things into consideration to manage that greenhouse, whereas indoor. It is just, in my opinion, it's certainly a lot easier. Uh, and maybe that's one of the reasons I like doing outdoor and greenhouse. 'cause there's just a whole different set of challenges and, you know, it, it, it keeps you on your toes.
Uh, but an indoor, you know it, once you set your parameters and once you have good infrastructure, I always tell people like, flower to me is the oven. I'm just putting the cake into the oven and letting, you know, letting the, the environment do its job, right. Feeding correctly, feeding at the right intervals.
You know, everything's in under control, right? You know, the, the temperatures are managed based off parameters that I set basically on a cell [00:14:00] phone, right? So that's the difference, right? Is growing in a greenhouse, in my opinion, takes, uh, a little bit more fine tuning from a management year round than what an indoor does.
So long as your, your infrastructure is adequate.
Tommy Truong: You, you mentioned in a greenhouse, there's only certain times during the year that you can grow quality flower, and there's other times where you're squeezing the juice. If, if you had, and in your example in Florida, you have a greenhouse, you have indoor, indoor co. A lot more to set up and maybe run. But is there a, what is the difference if you're comparing apples to apples in terms of.
Of how much revenue you can make indoor year round versus greenhouse, and then what are the costs associated with the two?
Darrin Potter: Yeah. So I mean, I look at, I look at it like this. So an indoor, you know, you're probably gonna for a good indoor, right, not, not something you know. [00:15:00] It's not tents and stuff like that, right. For a a, a quality indoor facility, you're gonna spend at a minimum 350 to $375 a square foot. Right. To build it out. I mean, I, I, we built out facilities where they wanted all the bells and whistles and it cost over $400 a square foot.
And then we've done retrofits in buildings where we probably got it down to like 2 75, 200 $80 a square foot, and certainly cutting corners. But, um. So that's the one thing is your op, your your CapEx to start, right? And then your opex is obviously gonna be pretty significant 'cause you have an electric bill because you have AC and you have lights, right?
Your, your biggest drivers are power, right? These, your largest consumers, dehumidifiers, all of these things suck up energy and they, that's the the issue, right? One of the big issues, I mean, forget about the environmental impact. Because that's another reason I'm, I'm an advocate for growing outdoors and in greenhouses and in [00:16:00] greenhouses.
I mean, I, I, I can't remember, it's been a little while since I've looked this up, but I mean, I think it was somewhere in the ballpark of 1%, maybe 2% of all power in the United States is consumed by indoor gross, right? When you think about that, it's like, you know, how can you sit there and talk about being, you know, environmentally friendly and you know, eating all organic and doing all these things, but smoking nothing but indoor flower, knowing the environmental impact, right?
So that's something that I have a hard time dealing with myself. That's why I don't put all of my eggs in one basket, building a massive indoor. So that's that in a greenhouse, I mean, you can certainly spend. $350 a square foot for roll, you know, mobile benches and automation and all these things in a very nice controlled CEA greenhouse.
But you can also spend $125 a square foot and build a pretty decent greenhouse. Now you're going to have a lower. CapEx starting, you're [00:17:00] gonna have a lower opex, but your revenue return is certainly gonna be different, right? You know, if you think about that cost in an indoor, your cost per pound, call it somewhere between 500 and $650 a pound, um, which I've certainly seen from MSO operators, I, I know for a fact 'cause I've looked at their books and then, you know, in a greenhouse, depending on the style of greenhouse, right?
If I have a greenhouse with chillers. Light depth, fully lit up damn near an indoor grow. But the only difference is I've got, you know, the, the benefit of using that big fiery ball in the sky, my production costs are gonna be lower, but not dramatically lower, right? I mean, pretty dramatically if you're looking at margins really precisely, but you're looking at probably three 50 a pound to produce maybe as low as $250 a pound, but outdoor.
And in some greenhouses that don't have all the high tech stuff. I mean, I've grown pounds for 35 to $50 a pound, no problem. Right? Easy and, and quality, [00:18:00] like good quality. Um, and same thing in a, in a greenhouse that's a hoop house that I don't have lights, I don't have air conditioning. I just have really good air flow, really good ventilation, and I'm growing certain times a year.
Now the opportunity cost is you're not growing in summer, specifically in Florida. You're not growing in winter, specifically in like Minnesota, but. You know, that's all a ma a matter of planning and how much you plant, right? So I, I, I used to have this conversation with some growers who were like, oh, well you just need to build up, right?
Just tier your grow. And I come from ag, so if I took that to like, you know, somebody in the ag world, like, oh, well let's just build up, let's put another acre on top of this acre. They would look at me sideways. They'd, you know, just from the cost of land. It's pretty cheap in Florida at least. You know, they'd be like, well, why don't we just plant another acre?
You know, and it's like, yeah, that makes sense too. But, um, so yeah, it's, there are certainly benefits on both side, right? Quality and indoor consistent, but at a high cost [00:19:00] environmentally and to the pocket. And then, you know, the, the cost savings, but the versatility you get growing outdoors where. You know, maybe I want to go on vacation and take some time off.
I'm a, I'm a workaholic, so I don't really myself, but you know, most of ag is seasonal outside of cannabis these
Tommy Truong: I, I always think about the, the macro economics too. And so if you were gonna grow in-house, it's a lot more expensive, the quality's higher. You have to be really growing, really top shelf stuff. To demand a premium when the market saturate, essentially.
Darrin Potter: Yeah,
Tommy Truong: And that's what you're up against, I'm guessing.
Darrin Potter: and that's one of the reasons, that's another reason rather why I, I firmly believe you need to have indoor to feed the, the, the consumers that are strictly looking for top quality product, but because the margins are getting thinner and thinner. [00:20:00] And, you know, the, the market's getting more and more saturated, so you know, it's a discount here, a discount there.
You have to, so I don't know if you invest, but I, I've always invested gold, silver, things of that nature, at least these days in gold and silver. But, you know, I look at it as dollar cost averaging, if you know, if you understand that, right? So if I can grow indoor at this price and I can grow greenhouse at this price, and I can grow outdoor at this price, and then I can put.
Those products in the specific categories where I have those mar the best margins, then I can dollar cost average. But if I'm strictly growing indoors, there's not a lot of flexibility, right? My costs are my cost. They're fixed, right? I can do everything I can to try to maybe add some automation or, you know, usually what ends up happening, and this is why a lot of these companies struggle, is because.
Well, let's just give that guy two more jobs. I mean, I talked to one of my best friends today, he's up in New York. Um, hopefully he moves back to Florida soon. But he works for a very large company. I'm not gonna say their name, [00:21:00] but you know, he's doing the work of three people, right. He's literally overseeing three departments, which I do myself, but I'm an owner in the company, so I'm use, you know, that's different.
Right. Whereas he's just an employee, right? He, he doesn't have ownership in the company, his salary. He's not getting paid for the, you know, three salaries. He's getting one salary for his one job, but his job is really three positions. And you know, think about trying to control. Yeah, I, I'll use an example.
I'm going to be overseeing real estate, construction and facilities in all states with, you know, 10 projects going on in each state. It's not really feasible with nobody underneath you, right? No, no person to allocate to say, okay, you, you take Florida, you take this, you know, it's, it's not feasible, but that's what a lot of companies end up doing to try to figure out how to save on costs because they just.
It's cost prohibitive. It's too expensive to have that many people. Cost of [00:22:00] living's not cheap either, especially these days.
Tommy Truong: I, I actually never thought about your concept of cost average
Darrin Potter: Dollar cost averaging.
Tommy Truong: a dollar cost averaging in, in, it's, it's in the silver space, especially right now. Silver's going through the roof.
Darrin Potter: Um, I think, I know I'm very happy about it. Yeah.
Tommy Truong: that's interesting. It is true. If you were a grower, you would set it up properly just to future proof your operations. When markets do turn and get saturated, how, how are you positioning your business,
Darrin Potter: Yep. Absolutely.
Tommy Truong: Can you talk a little bit about, um, terra Vera,
Darrin Potter: Sure.
Tommy Truong: what do you guys do and how do you help Rose?
Darrin Potter: Yeah. So, um. It all started when, um, I guess it was 20. So we got the Florida license grow healthy in 20 15, 20 16. Around that time period when it was the first licenses in Florida, we were the seventh license in the state. [00:23:00] Um, that was a big challenge. Uh, and then we got operational. We were growing product, really good product.
It, it hurt my soul 'cause actually I was growing indoor at the time. Um, and at the time, you know, I was doing it because the state was so. Intense about security. Right. You know, if you grew in a greenhouse, they would be like, oh, what if somebody just punched the hole in the greenhouse and stole all the cannabis and you know, Santa Claus away with a big bag of weed?
Like, uh, it's not really happening. But, so we grew indoor and I, it crushed my soul growing these beautiful, I mean, we were growing some fire and I was like, yep, just go. And, and at that time, you know, in Florida you couldn't, nobody was really doing ethanol. 'cause the state was. Pretty prohibitive about, you know, your hydrocarbons, anything you could process.
Everything was CO2. So that was, that was sad. But, um, a, uh, we got acquired by I Anis Capital and the COO of that company. Um, he and I became good friends and [00:24:00] he came, he, he'd actually been with Intel, so he was one of my, he is one of my mentors. I wouldn't say he was. He is, uh, he'd been in Intel and he was like, you know, he scaled New Mexico from 50 employees to 500 employees.
At, uh, Los Alamos, right? Or, or not Los Alamos, but, um, gosh, whatever. But that's what he did for Intel. So he's just a sharp dude. And after he left Intel, he bought a water treatment company and they had a Department of Defense contract where basically the goal was to. Create a piece of equipment to sterilize a large amount of water with a handheld device.
I actually still have one of the, uh, devices in my car. I keep it with me all the time, and they made it for soldiers, you know, out in the field, you know what I mean? I'm talking about sterilizing like 200 gallons of water with something the size of, you know, damn near my cell phone. So they sold that, you know, a couple hundred thousand, three 400,000 units to the Department of Defense.
Of course, when you get a. You know, government contract, people wanna buy your company. He sold it. Um, and then he, [00:25:00] as he moved on, he became part of IIS as the COO in very early days, 20, you know, 16. And they bought Grow Healthy. And he asked me, he's like, so what are some of the biggest challenges you, you experience in cannabis?
And at that point in time, you know, powdery mildew, um, pettus mites, things of that nature, I was like, that's typically what we face in, in cannabis. And he is like, well, what if you had a solution that was safe for your staff? Stay for your people and safe for the product, you know, safe for the plan. I was like, I'd love to hear about it.
And he told me about it. And as, as a grower and most growers, I'm like, yeah. I don't believe that. I ain't spraying that on my plants. And so, uh, I was like, I tell you what I've gotten being in Florida, you know, there's black mold everywhere. I was like, you know, I've got an irrigation room and I've got some mold growing on my wall over here.
Let's see what it does there. So we treated it and after three intervals, we did three applications, pretty much gone, you know, ate away on the outer surfaces and just kept on eating away at it. And then I was like, all right, [00:26:00] well I'm gonna send it to the lab. So sent it to the lab, came back. Clean, you know, it is literally just amino acids.
That's all it was. Um, later found out it was all natural food, grain amino acids, same amino acids that are actually exist in the plant. Um, and I was like, all right, I'll try this on the plants. And, uh, we had this one section of the grow that just consistently, and it, it had to do with airflow, right? We just consistently had PM in this one section.
Everything else in the front was beautiful, but this one back section that was just stagnant air would always get PM and it pissed me off. So I was like, all right, let's go. Let's go spray these plants. So we sprayed it. Then we sent the product to the lab. You know, everything came back clean, but PM went away.
So I was like, all right, well I guess this works. And then we implemented it ever since then. That was in 2018. Um. And then, you know, we implemented, implemented it across the entire asset of iis. So there was one in Massachusetts, one in Nevada, you know, one in Colorado. It was, it was all over the place.
'cause Iiss at the time, they were like eight states. Uh, and I was pushed into a [00:27:00] VP of operations role nationally. So I was going to all the states and every state had an issue. So we we're like, all right, well let's implement this. And, you know, to this day, uh, they still use Terra Vera, uh, at, at that operation.
Um, and then when I left, I Anis and I left Grow healthy and moved on. Uh, that was around the time when Carlos was like, you know, do you have an interest in participating? And you know, I was already like, yeah, I wanna be a shareholder. Like, how do I get stock? How do I get into this? And then, um. That, that pretty much is how it came to be.
So, you know, and a lot of times I'd get friends, I still have, it happens almost every day at this point where it's like, Hey man, I've got PM or I've got mites, I've got this. And I'm like, all right, here, I'll send you some stuff. Try it. If you like it, let me know. I, I'll get you on the program. So I've got growers in New York, you know, Arizona, Nevada, Florida, you name it, all over the country, uh, Costa Rica.
We're approved in, um, we're in the process of getting approved in Canada 'cause I have a few [00:28:00] clients up there that are begging for it. And then what we really found, um, was interesting. So there was an operator in Arizona, uh, you know, MSO and um, they had some of the worst PM and worst aphid, you know. This is going back like maybe three years now.
Um, and he was like, can you help me? This is an old employee of mine. He worked for me in Colorado and uh, you know, he still calls me boss and he's like, boss, I need help. I'm, you know, I got, I got all these problems. I was like, all right, we'll get you on the program. And we cleared up all his pm I mean just instantly and through consistent application and just really getting on it.
We got rid of all of his root afis too. And I mean, he still calls me and he is like, dude, you're the reason I have my job. Like, he's like, thank you. And now he's moved up to a VP role, so now he's like a regional person. And um, you know, we've gone to other states with them, so it's, to me, it's like the greatest thing in the world when I help my friends and they're like, Hey, I don't have any more pm I don't have any of these problems anymore.
The interesting thing about [00:29:00] it is that. Very few people, if any, will go online and be like, yo, I use Terra Vera to get rid of my pm. Or I use Terra Vera to get rid of my mites, or whatever that case may be. 'cause nobody wants to admit that they have, you know, mites and aphids and THPs and, and, and, you know, powdery mildew.
It's kind of like, you know, an std. Nobody wants to be like, I got STDs. You know? So, uh, that's always been a difficult challenge to overcome. Um, I would say we've had the most success recently with living soil growers because living soil growers have such a difficult time, uh, passing COAs for total yeast and mold.
And a lot of the time, you know, living soil, k and f growers, they're always, you know, they, they don't wanna spray anything on their plants and I totally get it. Uh, but we had an operator in New York and they were growing and living soil for probably at least a year or so. And they're well known living soil growers, but they had never passed a COA in their life.
I think maybe they passed one once. [00:30:00] So this is like two years of growing. Nothing's passed. Luckily they have a billionaire investor who, you know, this is like his pet project, his passion project. So, you know, they're not gonna run outta money. But, um, one of my good friends, Caleb, took over the operation and he's like, yo, I need carava bad.
He's like, I need something bad. So we sent him a system and, uh. They have not failed a COA since, and that was over a year ago. I mean, we're going into year two now. They've won, I don't know, at least six cannabis cups in New York at a minimum. And uh, it was tough with the grower at first because he's like, no, it'll spray anything on my plants.
And I'm like, look, it's all natural. It's food grade. It's just amino acids. There's no oil, there's no petroleum based products. And when the product, you know, so basically what we do is we take amino acids, a very specific blend of amino acids, same amino acids in the plant, and we apply electrolysis. So we essentially apply amperage to the molecules and we [00:31:00] change the molecular structure of the molecule.
And what we do is we create. A molecule that doesn't exist on its own in nature without an electrical charge. And because that molecule doesn't exist in nature, right, it's an inconsistent it, it reverts back. Right? And basically it has an oxygen on there, but it has a very low ORP, so it's non-corrosive to metals.
It's non-corrosive. It won't burn your skin or anything like that. So you don't have the word PPE, and really it's bio biomimicry. So your body actually produces the exact same chemistry that we produce when you get sick. So if you get a fungal pathogen or a bacterial infection, your body will generate this chemistry to fight that infection.
We just biohacked it. Created it outside of the body, right? And then we apply it to plants and we apply it to a lot of, you know, different things. We actually, in Costa Rica, the way that they're using it and have been using it now for, I don't know, at least six months or so, maybe longer, um, they [00:32:00] grow sweet potatoes and they use it to cure, clean their sweet potatoes and cure their sweet potatoes so they're able to cure their sweet potatoes anywhere between three.
You know, roughly three days where it usually takes a couple of weeks, but not only that, they're able to preserve the potatoes longer. Um, so a lot of the spent, or you know, let's say the, the potatoes, they've been sitting there for too long. They'll end up going to horse feed. Well now these guys are like, I don't wanna feed that to my horses.
Like, these are still good potatoes, so they'll actually keep them and eat them themselves if they don't, you know, aren't able to sell them all at market. So, you know, we, it, it's come to work in a couple different ways. Um, I would say the most unique way that Terra ever has expanded recently is, uh, so do you, you follow like honeybees or know anything about honeybees on the planet?
Tommy Truong: A little bit, just a little bit.
Darrin Potter: Okay, so I'll, I'll, I'll get into that. So honeybees are responsible for about 20% at a minimum, [00:33:00] up to 30%, but about 20% of all the food that you consume at the grocery store,
Tommy Truong: Wow.
Darrin Potter: Yeah. Um, they're pollinators, right? And you know, without pollinators we lose that food. So what happens to the population of the world? Yeah, it's bad. It's really bad. So they've actually, the government's done studies on this about, they call it, uh, hive collapse or, or, um, uh, it's, it's basically a food collapse theory. So if we lost all the honeybees on the planet, what would that do to the human population? We would lose about 20 to 30% of the human population on the planet.
Pretty devastating. And what has happened? Due to a couple different factors. So, uh, humans applying pesticides that obviously kill pollinators, right? Environmental factors, weather. And then the second largest killer of honeybees besides humans and human pesticides is called the varroa destruct mite. So a mite, very much like on a cannabis plant.
Same thing. And we found that at very [00:34:00] specific ratios, uh, we were able to kill the varroa destruct mite. But save the bee, save the hive, and save the honey. The other means of killing a ver road destruct might oftentimes destroyed, well, oftentimes killed the bee. So you didn't even save your bee all the time, but it always destroyed the hive and always destroyed the honey.
So it's kind of like you always have to have a replacement hive to try to transfer your bees to. And, uh, efficacy was always an issue. So we've been extremely successful in killing the Vero destruct mite with like 90 plus percent efficacy. Um, and we're saving the bees, saving the hive, saving the honey, which is, you know, some of the, the most important things.
So we actually just did a conference in, uh, in Germany. Uh, last month. Um, we've got clients now in Colorado and the, the bee side of Terra Vera is actually, we call it API vera, you know, API for bees. Um, it's still part of under, under the terra vera umbrella, but we're actually [00:35:00] oversubscribed. I mean, we have so many units that people are trying to buy to save their hives because without the hives, you know, you can't pollinate your trees.
I'll give you an example. In Australia. The almond industry is pretty much going to collapse because they don't have enough hives to pollinate their trees. And the issue with, with, um, beekeepers is they are very reluctant because you, it's not like one beekeeper puts his hives in a orchard and it does all the work.
They have to actually bring bees from a ton of different beekeepers. To pollinate acres. Right. And then the beekeepers are so reluctant to mix their hives with other hives 'cause they don't want to get barrow a destructor mite and collapse their hive. So it's a really, it's a, it's a global problem. Uh, a lot of people aren't aware of it.
'cause nobody talks about it. You're not gonna see it on the news. It's not like hype, hype information until it's like, oh no, our food supply is in danger. And uh, but yeah, I know that'll make you think right.
Tommy Truong: Well, I'm, I'm thinking so how are you guys Not more well [00:36:00] known or on, on the mainstream. This is a huge problem.
Darrin Potter: I mean, it is a huge problem. So we actually are in the last year, uh, Dr. Jeff Petti, who is a entomologist, and he actually worked with the US Department of Agriculture. Uh, he's joined our team because he was one of the people who, uh, was involved in doing the, the, the modeling for the hive collapse and, and how that impacts, um, food security on, on the planet.
And so he actually joined our team because of how successful we've been. And, um, I actually had a meeting with him at just two hours ago. Um, and you know, because he saw the opportunity and he understands the crisis. He's like, I, you know, I'm, I just wanna be involved, like, how do I do this? So it's tough getting that kind of information out.
We're a small company. It's not like we're a major corporation, right? We're, we're a small, scrappy company. We work like hell and you know, we try to get the information out. But a lot of times, and I get this, I literally get [00:37:00] this at minimum once a week, sometimes like, it seems like almost every day of the week.
Oh, it's too good to be true. I don't believe you snake oil, especially in the cannabis industry, right? Because people were selling snake oil for such a long time in the cannabis industry. It's hard to trust somebody when they're trying to sell something. That's why honestly, I've given, man, I've given like 20, 30 units away for free.
I'm like, here, just try it. I'm like, I don't even care. Because to me, I'd rather see the success. Know that it's gonna pay forward mostly to consumers 'cause I care about that. But two, I just like to help growers 'cause I'm a grower and I want to make sure like, dude, I got a solution. Just try it. It's not gonna cost you anything.
Saves your crop, you're gonna be happy. And then if you like it, great, buy some more. Right? I don't care.
Tommy Truong: are, you guys are charging these amino acids. How long do they last for in that state?
Darrin Potter: That's a good question. So, um, so it, it has Anant potential so it can fall out in high temperatures. Um, the oxygen is consumed as soon as it, it comes [00:38:00] in contact with a living organism, fungal pathogen, any kind of organic matter. Um, and it typically lasts for about two weeks, right? It can last up to 30 days.
So the system, we actually sell the system and then we sell the amino acids. Um, and we do it to where you can generate your own chemistry on demand when you want to do it. So there's no shipping issues, anything like that. You buy the system or lease the system? We lease a lot of, most of the systems we lease, to be honest with you, the larger systems to do like acres.
I sell small systems all the time for like home operators. Um, and the chemistry, literally you make the chemistry, you press the button, activates the aminos. Actually, it's happening right now at my own grow. Like literally right this second, uh, one of the guys is gonna go fog the dry room because, you know, that's where you see a lot of issues is in the dry room with fungal pathogens, specifically aspergillus because it grows onto king material, which is like people drop, you know, dead leaves in a dry room.
[00:39:00] So, um, so yeah, we make it on demand and then we apply it usually within 24 to 48 hours. I've definitely stored chemistry for two weeks and applied it and still had great efficacy. Um, but yeah, that's, that is one of the, the, the drawbacks is that, you know, the chemistry is not shelf stable, so you have to demand it, uh, make it on demand.
That said, without teasing too much, but we are, we've already filed our patents, and in the future I see a future where we do not have to activate. I'll, I'll leave it at that. Yeah. That's, that's probably gonna be our greatest breakthrough, which we are. We're already there, to be honest with you. But, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of work that goes into commercializing a product like that, going through all the, the registrations.
Um, and we're actually, we're still doing efficacy trials right now with nurseries in Florida. Uh, universities. We've done, we've done observations with the University of West Indies. Um, we're, we've been in conversations with [00:40:00] Cornell. I honestly, I'm, I don't even know if that that's moved forward, but they're doing a powdery mildew observation right now and they've asked that we be participating in it.
So they're, I, I'm almost 100% that's happening. I just, I'm not involved in that on a daily basis, but, um, yeah,
Tommy Truong: How did Carlos. He seems like he's a serial entrepreneur. And how did he get into this?
Darrin Potter: Uh, cannabis. Um, so he went to Stanford and it just so happened they were at like some kind of Stanford, Stanford reunion. And one of the guys that he went to college with was there talking about how he was starting this cannabis company, and Carlos had looked at it, you know, in Oregon and, and, and whatnot.
One of his friends had asked him like, Hey, can you help me? I need to sell a business or I need to organize a business. And he, he's just, he's very savvy. Um, and he is like, well, tell me about what you're doing and what, what It ended up. They had a conversation and he's like, well, I'm trying to buy small pieces of all these cannabis companies and take it [00:41:00] public.
And you know, Carlos is like, that's a horrible idea. And he's like, you know, why do you think he's like, well you're, you're putting investors' money into the future of operators, but you have no control of their operation, so you have no control of your investment. He's like, what you need to do is go out and buy these entities and then implement processes.
Now we've obviously seen that happen as well and not be successful and, you know, to Carlos's credit. He was not the reason that entity was not successful. Um, as a matter of fact, you know, that's why he went another direction because he saw ways to do it better. And you know, I'll also say cannabis is a really volatile industry.
He saw an opportunity. Way beyond cannabis to to really create a product that he was already familiar with and own the rights to it in agriculture and apply that technology to agriculture for the greater good beyond just like cannabis, [00:42:00] right? I love cannabis, don't get me wrong, but when you think about food security, when you think about, you know, pesticides and crops, he's a big wine connoisseur.
And then he found out like there's 85 plus percent of the wine you drink has traced pesticides. So, you know, it's like, damn. And when you start to really dig into it, it scares the shit outta
Tommy Truong: Wine is the worst
Darrin Potter: It is the worst. Apples are really bad. Strawberries are really bad. And it sucks because I have friends who grow these things and I care about them.
And I don't wanna hurt their business. I wanna help their business. But also really, you know, I, like I said, I have kids and I will not buy anything that's not organic for my kids. And, and just so you know, it's not, just because it's organic doesn't mean it's good for you. Right. Pyres come from chant anthem.
You know, it's an organic, it's oy certified. It's not safe. It's not like you should go out and do shots of pyrethrins, but you know, especially with soft-bodied fruits and stuff like that, I'm very adamant about buying organic for my kids, just simply because I don't want [00:43:00] them to have to deal with the things that I've dealt with growing up, uh, by, you know, basically being sprayed by crop dusters with pesticides, you know, my
Tommy Truong: And, and using, um, charged amino acids is organic.
Darrin Potter: Yeah. It's all, yeah, it's all natural. It's food grade. Yeah. And the thing is, you know, when you create that, that chloramine is what it is, an organic chloramine. When it reverts back, when it loses that oxygen, it turns right back into amino acids, right? Which is the foundation of life, you know, building blocks of life.
It just turns into food on the plant. It goes right back to water and amino acids. So there's no. You know, nefarious, systemic residual that's residing in the plant that you're gonna consume and it's gonna get into your bloodstream. You know, those amino acids exist in you as well, right?
Tommy Truong: I want you guys everywhere,
Darrin Potter: Uh, I hope. Yeah.
Hopefully this podcast might, uh, might help with that, but, uh,
Tommy Truong: Well, hopefully, hopefully, at least, you know, if, if anybody's listening, uh, please
Darrin Potter: Yeah. Check us out. www.terraver.com. There's my plug. Bam.[00:44:00]Â
Tommy Truong: I was gonna ask you, I, I know that we're out of time.
Darrin Potter: No, it's all good.
Tommy Truong: how can our listeners find you?
Darrin Potter: Uh, so I'm on LinkedIn. I'm not as active as I used to be 'cause I'm pretty busy, you know, doing work. Right. But, um, you can definitely hit me up at Darrin D-A-R-R-I n@terravera.com, T-E-R-R-A-V-E-R a.com. Uh, it's pretty much the same on CSE. You need greenhouses built. It's Darrin at, uh, CSE Grow Cultivation Structures and Equipment is the company.
But our, our tagline, uh, and our, our website is CSE Grow. And then, uh, hopefully you'll see Fino Brand's product in, in the, on the shelves in Florida. I would say our first dispensary is probably opening up Right now, we're kind of geared up for March, is what we're shooting for. Um, and I'm trying to open on an average two to three dispensaries a year.
I'm going slow simply because, you know, rec is not come to fruition and then in Florida yet, but it [00:45:00] will, it's inevitable. And the THCA hemp market really has consumed, you know, you got 10,000 hemp shops selling hemp, you know, THCA hemp, uh, you know, and it's tough to compete against that 'cause we are so regulated in the medical cannabis space, uh, that it's, you know, when you got folks that have zero regulation, it's hard to compete against that.
Tommy Truong: And the public just does not understand synthetic, uh, THC too, which is
Darrin Potter: It's sad.
Tommy Truong: Unfortunate. Uh, where will you guys be open though, in March? Which, uh, which
Darrin Potter: yeah. Uh, yeah, so we're opening our first location in Claremont, Florida. And then, uh, I don't know if I can disclose the other two locations yet, but Claremont is gonna be 100% our first location. Uh, we've got our approvals there to, well, from the municipality. We still have to go through inspections with the state.
I'm excited.
Tommy Truong: we have to get you back on on if, if you want. If, uh, if you're happy to next [00:46:00] year spring,
Darrin Potter: Yeah, man.
Tommy Truong: lemme talk about it.
Darrin Potter: Yeah, maybe I'll figure out how to do this on my phone and with a headset and we'll take a little, you know, walk and look at some nuggets and look at some flower
Tommy Truong: That'd be awesome. I'm, I'm down. Oh, you know what? Also, I'll be in Florida and I'll hit you up and we can do a live pod. That'd
Darrin Potter: Yeah, absolutely man. I'm, I'm totally down.
Tommy Truong: That'd be sweet. Darrin, thank you so much for joining me.
Darrin Potter: Absolutely, man. Thank you. Thank for having me.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Kaya Cast Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast in your favorite podcast or visit our website.
