[00:00:00]
Tommy Truong: Dan, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dan Serard: Thanks for having me, Tommy. Nice to, uh, be back on Kaya Cast.
Tommy Truong: So you've, you guys have such an extensive, extensive footprint in our industry, working with hundreds of brands on how to, how to, how to set up your brand presence, but as well as your marketing strategy. When a, an owner, a dispensary owner, owner is just getting license, when should they think about their marketing strategy?
Dan Serard: Yeah, great question. And um, what I would say to that is it the sooner, the better, you know, um, when you are developing a concept, a a lot of the time concepts take I ideas and takes time to percolate and, and figure it out. Um, what I would highly suggest, there's a few different areas of developing a concept and a marketing strategy where.
When you're pre-approval for a license, you should be very involved in the [00:01:00] marketing process. Um, so let's say, let's just say for the sake of ease, provisional license is six months before you get your final license. Um, that's when I would start having those conversations around branding, if not earlier.
A lot of the time, uh, branding does take some time to develop. Uh, every company is different, but on the, the quick end of branding, that can take about a month. On the longer end, it could take three months depending on how many cooks are in the kitchen and how many decisions are to be made. So, you know, I would say when you're really getting that first initial license, um, and you know, we're doing this thing, that's when you should be having those conversations.
So you allow yourself enough time to do the steps that are needed in order to get everything up to par for when you open, right? So that's your brand identity, your website. Your online presence where those things properly done can take time.
Tommy Truong: So what does, what is involved in branding? [00:02:00] Where do you start?
Dan Serard: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So, um, first and foremost, we need to think of a name, right? And an idea. So a say you're in New York and you're opening up a dispensary in Brooklyn, right? Um, let's talk about what's related to Brooklyn. Is there any, um, areas that you are in Brooklyn? Do you plan to expand outside of Brooklyn?
If not, you don't wanna necessarily mention Brooklyn. So first part is the name of the brand, right, or name of the dispensary. Um, once we have that name established, we're looking at both the visual identity of your dispensary, right? Your logo, your color palettes, your iconography, the pictures that describe you, um, textures, fonts, that kind of thing.
But also the messaging around the brand. And I think that's something that's overlooked a lot when dispensaries and brands open is, okay, we need a logo, right? But your brand is much more than just your logo. It's [00:03:00] who you are, what your core values are, your principles, what you stand for, is there an ethos behind your company?
And that's what really drives home to consumers when they're looking to, you know, become that loyal customer. So what is. Something that relates to the customers in your area, right? Like I said, Brooklyn. So how can you identify in that, uh, localized presence to really capture, uh, what they're looking for by the way that you promote the message of your dispensary so you have your visual and your messaging identity, uh, for part of the brand process.
Tommy Truong: I know that, and I don't know a lot about brands, so maybe this is a perfect conversation. 'cause I feel like a lot of our listeners are novice, just as novice as as I am. When do you start thinking about your brand identity and, and is that part of the messaging that you wanna relay to the.
Dan Serard: Yeah, and I think it's almost as important to start with your [00:04:00] messaging and at least conversations and brainstorming before you put pen to paper, right? Because if you have a message that is, um, a part of your brand and your mission statement, that's all about maybe giving back to the community or being environmentally friendly, well, those decisions that you make talking about your brand are gonna.
Um, give some guidance on how we develop what your brand looks like. So, go ahead, sorry. Uh, that's important as part of the process.
Tommy Truong: no, I was gonna ask you, does the brand, the brand identity, do you do that at the same time as your retail experience?
Dan Serard: Yes. I think it's really important to do that hand in hand and often we work with interior architects and interior designers, um, to really have that, uh, fluid experience, whether it be someone looking on your website. Walking into your store, looking at your social media channels, getting an email from you, [00:05:00] that consistent brand presence that's solidified needs to be across your whole experience.
So I think it's really important when we develop a brand to have all of the, um, stakeholders that you feel are necessary to have that, um, that look, that feel, that message, that design on every touch point that a CU customer will have.
Tommy Truong: I always think about, uh, and I'm thinking about brands right now. So for example, days on in Union Square, they have a a brand and they're a party brand. So you go there for, they have events, they have parties. You go there for a good time. When you get in the music's loud, you know, everybody has, uh, every, the energy is there.
Right. So what you're saying is a brand is beyond the logo, it's the experience too. And what is it? What is the cu, what do customers expect when they come in [00:06:00] through your store and the brand is an extension of that.
Dan Serard: Right, exactly. And, and you nailed it. I mean, I think from Dave's perspective and, and that business that you're talking about, you might not necessarily be able to draw their logo, but you definitely know what that experience was that you felt. Um, when you walked inside that dispensary. So what resonates with customers is how you feel about the brand, more of what it looks like, right?
Looks can definitely help. And it, they help express what that feeling is. But when we talk about that brand identity, that brand process, it's how you want your customers to feel about you as a business.
Tommy Truong: So for me, I look at examples of, for example, if I was, if my retail experience is. A, a minimalistic dispensary where you come in, uh, maybe the customer experience is transactional. You, [00:07:00] uh, you, you have a very small skew and customers come in and they come out. That is a completely different brand and retail experience than, for example, if I was a, uh. Hardcore turp brand where you come in and you're talking to somebody that understands terpene profiles and they can walk you through the gauntlet of, of what your, uh, what you should look for based on the experiences that you want.
Dan Serard: Very true. Yeah. And you know, for that, if we're having that conversations when we're, we're building the website or anything else, I would say that more minimalistic, you're looking at the whites, the grays, the blacks, right. The clean, if you will, whereas that, that terp experience, you're looking at colors that can play into different terpenes, right?
So like, uh, ul you got your purple scale and you know, ine you got your greens and your yellows and bringing out colors to express that feeling like you mentioned and [00:08:00] we talked about is really how we look to develop that experience for that customer, where you're gonna get a very different feeling walking into those two stores, some.
May enjoy that terpene experience. Some may just want to get in and out, and that's it. So it's really, you know, you can't be both. It's very hard to be both. So establishing that upfront, um, who you want to be and what your position is, is, is crucial to your business surviving.
Tommy Truong: I, it is not only that, you can't be both. You would not be successful doing both.
Dan Serard: Right, exactly. Exactly.
Tommy Truong: think I, I feel like that's where businesses go to die is the mediocrity of trying to do everything and not great at anything.
Dan Serard: We, we get that a lot, especially in the cannabis space. Or you know, they want to pivot and say, Hey, you know, we want to be, uh, you know, the Apple store of cannabis, but they look like the Starbucks of cannabis, if you will. Right. So, um, it's very different experience that you, um, need to identify upfront, which guides to everything else in the process.
Tommy Truong: How much is [00:09:00] the brand identity and extension of the founders and the owners, or does it need to be.
Dan Serard: Yeah, great question. It doesn't need to be, we have a lot of clients that prefer it not to be, um, where, you know, they might have an experience, um, with cannabis and they're like, look, I don't want the brand to be about me. You know, it should be about the, the people, um, that consume the brand, or it might be about the way that brand.
Products make you feel. But then we also have people who are very tied into communities who like to have that, you know, representation. So it's about the owner and how involved they wanna be with the business. Um, tied to that.
Tommy Truong: And how much should an owner think about does branding come before location? And I'm, I'm thinking to myself, your brand should fit where you are business is messy. So you, you know, you get a location. That's great. Then do you start thinking about, okay. [00:10:00] What should be the experience be in this location, which then, you know, you, you work on your brand. How does it tie in with where you are?
Dan Serard: Yeah, it's a great question. So we, we like to use the term, starting with the end in mind, where we're, when we're discussing a brand, first and foremost, we talk about, okay, where do you wanna be in five years? Right? Where do you wanna be in 10 years? Where do you wanna be a year from now? The reason why we do that.
Is because if we are working with a dispensary who has plans to be in 10 different states and 25 locations, their brand needs to be very different and they need to think about this versus someone who is tied into the Brooklyn community and is just opening up one location of Brooklyn. So location, location's important, but projections for the business is more important than your goals.
I would say so. Um, that's a couple things to think of when establishing your brand is who do you want to be in [00:11:00] a year, five years, and 10 years from now? And then let's talk about it.
Tommy Truong: So what. What would, what would be the top five things that somebody should do when creating a brand?
Dan Serard: Great question. Um, you know, top five things. Let's start with one. One is to involve all key stakeholders. Um, so you get different angles and perspectives from the people that you trust in your business. Um, we often see business owners who just say, marketing director at the time, establish our brand with this agency, and that's it.
That's what they're stuck with. So involve all key stakeholders. Um, identify, you know, another one, I'll go back to what we just talked about. Identify who you want to be a year, five years, and 10 years from now. Um, that'll set you up for success. Uh, three. Um, your brand is not your [00:12:00] logo. Your logo is not your brand, so don't necessarily hyperfocus on the logo element.
Focus more about the messaging, the overall experience of your brand. Um, whereas the logo will, will come, um, but there's more than just the logo itself.
Tommy Truong: you elaborate a little bit on experience? Like if, if I was thinking about the experience of my brand, what would be the things I should cover?
Dan Serard: Yeah, so how, how you, how you want to make customers feel, meaning how you position your message with customers, right? So you can be a friendly brand, you can be a scientific type brand, you can be a, you know, local terminology brand. You can do it, be a very adult use, focused on, you know, uh, counterculture brand.
So.
Tommy Truong: Is this where the um, the. The brand identity comes in, is this brand identity?
Dan Serard: Yep. Exactly. And then, [00:13:00] you know, so from that experience, and then what we do once we identify that is we look at colors that go with emotions, right? So blue has an emotion tied to it, red has an emotion tied to it, and then we develop color palettes that make a person feel a certain way based on how colors react.
To people's emotions. So that's, um, an important part of the identity process as well.
Tommy Truong: Well you, you say this, and I wonder if days accidentally came with pink, pink and black, which is a party kind of color palette, and then you have ter rows, which is blue and yellow, which is very terpene.
Dan Serard: Exactly. Yeah, I would say they, they nailed the brand process there, right. So. Um, it, it's important because if Terp world was black and pink, then you'd be like, I'm not following
Tommy Truong: Yeah.
Dan Serard: Without even thinking about it. You walk in and you're a little confused, um, but you don't know why. And [00:14:00] so that's, you know, that's, that's the psychology of, of branding.
Tommy Truong: So we have, um, where you want to be. In five, 10 years, we have, Hey, we should include all the stakeholders we have. How do cus how should customers feel when they come in? So a little bit about feeling is, is that also an extension of when do you incorporate in your retail experience.
Dan Serard: From the start, I think looking at the, the flow you want people to take, um, having your construction plans either not necessarily identified, but. Thought out, talking through that process, you know, do you want people to go around with iPads and help check people out that way, you know, as a, you know, shopper, or do you want to have lines, a quick pickup line?
Um, I, I always would recommend involving people sooner rather than later. Um, just because you never want to double down the work. [00:15:00] And then, you know, I would say for the, the fourth thing, um, don't rush it. I think it's important that you spend the time, effort, energy, and budget that's appropriate, that you feel comfortable with on the brand where we have a lot of people that, um, ask us for a logo 'cause they're opening up next week and you know, unfortunately that's not a great fit for our business.
Because, um, ultimately we know what will likely happen to that business. Um, so we wanna make sure to do right by the business. But don't rush anything. Take the time that's necessary, uh, because it is, it is a long process, but you're, you're laying the foundation for your business. It's just like if you were to rush the, you know, pouring the concrete for your retail location, right?
If you want to get that done as quickly as possible, concrete needs, uh, a dry. A couple of days to set instead of a, a [00:16:00] rainstorm. So if you rush it and then it rains, you're gonna have cracks in your concrete. And it's the same thing with branding.
Tommy Truong: Gotcha. That makes
Dan Serard: And then, you know, the last thing I would say, have fun with it. Right? I mean, especially when we look at cannabis, it's, it's an adult use product. People love using it for all types of things. Have fun with the brand. Um, don't necessarily. Pick with what resonates with you. What resonates with the majority of the people around you in a retail experience and have fun with it.
People are coming in for, um, a positive experience in cannabis, so make it positive, right? Whether it means helping them with their arthritis or helping them because they like to, you know, get high on the weekends and just enjoy some music. So, uh, have fun with it and, um, and be creative.
Tommy Truong: So after having your brand down, your retail strategy, when should, and what does, what does a marketing campaign look like and when should you start when you're opening up your [00:17:00] store?
Dan Serard: Yeah, I think it's important. Um, you know, first baseline is your website. Um, websites can take anywhere from, well, depends who you work with, anywhere. From, you know, a few weeks to a few months to to six months. It just depends on who's building the website and, and how it's built. And it's, if it's properly built.
Um, so once again, you wanna make sure that when you're open, when you launch, people can get to your website, order online and be able to find you. So give a rule of thumb, you know, 90 days, um, is when you wanna start your website. That's your foundation, right? That's your brand. Retail presence in a digital manner.
It's just, you know, think of that as your, your footprint, um, your physical footprint. It's the same thing. Marketing campaigns, you know, they, they can range. I always use a general rule of thumb, like around that 90 day mark from opening is a good rule of thumb. And the reason why is because [00:18:00] there's only so many ways you can say, coming soon with people, um, with capturing interest.
And keeping people engaged. Um, so, you know, I've seen a lot of companies that have a sign that says, coming soon for three years. Um, so I, I always prefer don't spend all the money out of the gate on campaigns, launch campaigns, wait until you're ready to sell, to make, start making some revenue. But remember, you know, for, for a good eight, you know, good marketing campaign takes a, a while to develop.
So allow the team, whoever you're using time to develop that campaign and then launch it, you know, around 90, 60 days before you open.
Tommy Truong: What should a good marketing campaign include?
Dan Serard: Yeah, great question. Um, as much as you have a budget for, no, I'm just kidding. Um, you know, from a retail's perspective. There's a few things that, that we look at that [00:19:00] are important for any business overall. I think first and foremost, search engine optimization, SEO, um, is number one, right? That's how you're found online.
So when someone types in dispensary near me, you want to make sure those campaigns are as concrete as possible and are built out as possible. So people aren't going to page two or page three, um, to find you on Google. You're popping up immediately. Um, the other important campaign I would recommend is identifying and implementing your CRM stack.
So that's your email and SMS marketing. So when you're open, um, or you're, let's say before you open, right, that's what we wanna focus on. Say year before you open and you go to a local event. Maybe it's a, um, maybe it's a cannabis trade show or maybe it's a local's farmer's market. Capturing those contacts, emails, phone numbers, uh, IDs, whatever it might be.
Um, so you can tell them, Hey, we're open. [00:20:00] Hey, we have a new product on sale. So, you know, SEO and email and SMS marketing, I think are, you're really two core aspects you should set up beforehand. Um, so you can hit the ground running when you open up. Obviously there's more stuff, um, depending on that. Social media is another one I.
I like to talk about social in the cannabis space. It's a very tricky, uh, area. Uh, meta is not as friendly, although there's some recent updates where they are allowing for some cannabis terminology, but it's a difficult platform because it's hard to track your return on investment. But it is a great platform to look at brand awareness and because in this day and age, everyone's on their phone, they're on Instagram, they're on Facebook, they're on Twitter.
TikTok, whatever it might be. Um, so really that's your, that's your foundational stack, I would say is your, your SEO, um, your CRM marketing and your social media to [00:21:00] make sure that you have a solid plan in place before you open.
Tommy Truong: How important is Google my business in this?
Dan Serard: Extremely important. Um, it is, if it is the first thing I would recommend for all dispensary owners to claim your Google My Business, at least the free listing. Because that is what is going to have you show up on the map when someone types in dispensary near me. If it's not claimed, then nobody will really know you're there unless they know about you or walked by.
So Google my business is, is crucial, and that's part of, you know, I would lump that into like SEO campaign.
Tommy Truong: Mm-hmm. I know that we're pretty much at the forefront of a change in behavior. I would say nowadays, for me personally, I don't necessarily Google anything anymore. It's among Claude, probably Claude is my go-to. But you have chat, you have perplexity, you have so many, so many LLMs. Now,
Dan Serard: Yeah.
Tommy Truong: How should a dispensary owner [00:22:00] navigate this early stage of a change in consumer behavior or, or at all?
Right? It's, it's always a 80 20 rule and, um, yeah, so how, how should somebody think about. Today and, and how that's changing.
Dan Serard: Yeah, that's, that's a great question. Um, and I was actually just having a conversation with some of our partners around it and, and really how AI and some of these LLMs are. Well, I think it is, um, I think I saw a data point. It's like up to 20% of all searches are done through LLMs now. So, um, it's important to identify that and look at GEO.
Um, and it is cannabis friendly, right?
Tommy Truong: What does GEO mean?
Dan Serard: Um, GEO is, uh, basically a, a terminology for AI and you know how there's SEO. Um, related to [00:23:00] search engine optimization, um, what we're looking at it is generative engine optimization.
Tommy Truong: hmm.
Dan Serard: So that's the, the acronym for that. So when we're looking at search in the search console versus LSL, lms, I should say that's the acronym for there.
So how to be found, um, through LLMs is that GEO Generative Engine optimization.
Tommy Truong: Is that adds so much complexity when you're first starting out. So where should somebody. You know, we were speaking about this and I'm a big believer in the 80 20 rule. 'cause there's an infinite amount of problems that a business owner can solve, and it's really up to the business owner to figure out what are the problems that are worth solving. Where does this rank with the other, uh, stacks that you've mentioned? Website, SMS, social. Mm-hmm.
Dan Serard: I think we're still a little early [00:24:00] when we look at GEO. Um, I think SEO is gonna be your, it, it is everyone's bread and butter right now. Um, companies that do well in SEO do well as a business. Um, I think over the next, you know, one to two years. That will start to switch. But if, if you were to say, Hey, Dan, I have $2,000 to spend this month.
Where should I put it? GEO or SEO? It's gonna be SEO until, you know, a, a, a little while from now.
Tommy Truong: So if I were, and so let's talk a little bit about those three. If I were setting up a website, what are the must-haves or, and what are the things that I can live without?
Dan Serard: Yep. Absolutely. As a retailer, must haves is your, um, menu for your products, right? There's a lot of different menu providers out there. Um, there's a lot of great ones out there. There's, you know, a lot of ones that, um, I wouldn't recommend and, uh, we don't need to get into any names, but one of the big [00:25:00] things that I would recommend is looking at a native e-commerce experience there for a menu.
Um, there's a couple of different terminologies when we get into retailers and menus. There's an iframe, um, and there's a native e-commerce, uh, menu. So I can explain the difference here, but this is gonna be one of the biggest things and, and a big change over the last couple of years we've seen when related to, uh, online menu providers.
So, in iframe, think of that as like a DoorDash in a restaurant website. None of the value on DoorDash on the online menu is actually on that restaurant's website. It's not native, it's in an iframe. Think of a a black box within your website, and that's the online ordering platform. There's no value to the pages that are in there, in that menu to you as a business owner, whereas native e-commerce, that menu now lives natively within your website.
So all the products, the category, the brand [00:26:00] pages are. Being tracked in the search engine on your website instead of a, let's call it a black box. So that's, that's very, very important, especially in a competitive space, to have that native e-commerce experience. Um, and that's where, you know, I would focus my time finding a platform that has that ability.
Tommy Truong: I've always, and I, I don't envy retailers in our space because there are so many different portals that customers can interact with you. So you have, you have your delivery, then you have your loyalty, and then you have your e-commerce. Where should you start and can you combine two of those into one so that you're not so diluted in where you spend your time?
Dan Serard: Yeah, a lot of the platforms, you know, the, the Dutchess, the Alpine IQs, the [00:27:00] Janes have the option to integrate both of them with curbside pickup, online order, in-store pickup delivery. Um, I would always focus on online ordering and pick up ordering first. I still think that is the, um, the, the trend, well, the trend in the industry is eventually probably to go delivery, but I don't think we're there yet.
I think people still. Are new to cannabis. Um, even in the states like Massachusetts that has been legal for six months where they need to, they feel a lot of the population need to go in and see what's there and, and talk to somebody where, you know, the adult, uh, use consumer, a lot of people are still novice and cannabis and they need that kind of handholding.
So online ordering, um, is gonna be important, um, over a, a delivery system. Um. That that is still being worked out.
Tommy Truong: Got it. So we have website. The number one thing is make [00:28:00] sure it's it's native
Dan Serard: Yep.
Tommy Truong: have a good inventory. Platform, right. That you can tie into your backend. Uh, is there anything else on, on, on the website experience that you would, uh, prioritize?
Dan Serard: Yeah, there's a couple things. Um, one I would say, you know, and these, these kind of go hand in hand, but making sure your backend SEO is built out appropriately. So that means I'll get a little technical here. Um, but happy to, you know, dig in as needed with anyone interested. But on page, off page, SEO, technical, SEO, meta descriptions, title tags, all the stuff that, um, is on the back end of your website that helps your website perform and rank.
Um, it's crucial to have that identified and built out, um, because what that does, it helps you rank in the search engines be on page one. Um, so that's another thing that's important to be built out, and that is an ongoing target. That's a moving target. So [00:29:00] it's not just, Hey, set it up and forget it. It's a Hey, continuously.
Add new pages, add blogs, optimize based on software updates and plugin updates. Um, and, and that's gonna be the second crucial thing. And then the third, make sure the user experience is very easy to navigate and not cluttered. So when we think about a website, if you're trying to get people to order, have that seamless experience.
Minimal amount of clicks, easy to find your products, easy to shop. Uh, and, and don't weigh down your, your website with a lot of different buttons and moving parts and carousels and video images and all that stuff make it easy for that customer because a lot of the shopping happens on your phone and there's very limited real estate on an iPhone screen or an Android screen to be able to say, alright, where's that menu button?
Tommy Truong: That is really good advice. Really, really good [00:30:00] advice. I, it's interesting, I, I always think about the online experience and the offline experience, more or less, somewhat similar. So when I go to Costco, there's not a lot of options for me, which is great. I don't get paralyzed. There's three options, four options, and I know that know you can't go that extreme, whereas you go to other stores, there's a million options.
So now I'm just stuck. I have no idea where to go and it's hard to organize what I'm looking for. Mm-hmm.
Dan Serard: Right, absolutely. I think, and I think there's a very fine line to walk there, right? You want to have enough options on your menu that you can, um, you know, uh, make sure everyone has what they're looking for, but at the same time. If I have, you know, 40 different types of flour or 50 different types of flour, like where do I begin?
The average customer, um, that may be more novice, is gonna be so overwhelmed and paralyzed. Um, where it, it, it, [00:31:00] it once again goes back to your brand. And if you're that TURP focused retailer, then yeah, you probably want to have more products. But if you're a simpler in and out, like maybe eight to 10 strains is good.
You know, you have your sativa, you have your hybrids, you have your indica, or, um, and you give people the options without them being like, nevermind, I, I'm just gonna walk out without buying anything. 'cause I don't even know where to start.
Tommy Truong: You mentioned something very interesting earlier, and I wonder, does this relate back to either an external partner or somebody internally is SEO is an ongoing process and things change? I know something changed recently. I was talking to, uh, our VP of marketing. He mentioned that something changed and you know, we had to adapt and et cetera.
So how does that fit in overall and, and what resources should an owner. Allocate moving forward to their SEO strategy. What does that look like? Do you need someone full-time for this?
Dan Serard: Yeah. I, I think it's important. I think you should have [00:32:00] either a, a person or an agency or a consultant full-time looking at SEO. Absolutely. Um, something as simple as a plugin on your website that has a new version that's not updated could shut down your website, which could essentially, um, result in you losing hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Somebody doesn't have eyes on that at all times. Um, the G four update, right? It's an algorithm update that happened, I think in like February. A lot of people get impacted by it if you're not making those changes necessary that Google wants you to do. I mean, if you're doing, you know, 50, you know, let's say $50,000 a month online in sales and you don't have anyone looking at your website, you're gonna see that dip immediately.
So I, I always recommend, and I'm biased 'cause we do SEO, but even if I didn't, um, and I managed agencies before for health clubs, that's my background. Um, and I worked in some startups. So even outside from a, um, a [00:33:00] retailer's perspective, doesn't have to be. You know, $50,000 a month on your website and a management fee, but it's somebody that always has eyes on that and is updating that as needed.
Tommy Truong: How much and based on your experience, how much does great SEO, great online presence, what does that translate to ultimately to sales?
Dan Serard: money. It's money in the door. I, I would say, you know, whenever I work with a retailer and they're like, where should I start? Where should I start? If you can do a good job with search engine optimization, you're gonna be successful as a business from a digital landscape. Um, advertising campaigns can get expensive.
They often get shut down. Social media doesn't relate to revenue. CRM marketing works well if you have a customer base, but if you don't have any contacts. There's no retention value in that, right? So SEO brings people in your door. Um, I always, always [00:34:00] recommend it. It does take time to do, you know, it, it can be impactful pretty quickly, but usually it takes six to 12 months to have a really good campaign strategy that's moving the needle, um, depending on your landscape, if you're in a competitive landscape.
Yeah.
Tommy Truong: so when do you start and. What does a good SEO strategy look like? So what are about creating SEO strategy? What are, what's involved?
Dan Serard: Yeah. The first thing that you wanna look at is, um, brainstorming what keywords you wanna rank for, right? Um, that's gonna be imperative to how you develop content on your website. So let's use dispensary in Brooklyn as a, as a example. 'cause I think that's a good one to use. Um, when we look at a keyword strategy.
That's gonna be the first thing that we do. So, dispensary near Brooklyn. Um, I would look at all the keywords that are relevant to the, um, neighborhoods in Brooklyn as well. And what we do is we look at a geo-targeted [00:35:00] location around your dispensary and develop campaigns and keyword clusters around that.
Where in Brooklyn? And, and in New York City, you're not gonna have someone who's traveling from the Upper West side to Brooklyn to buy weed at your dispensary, right? So there's no use in having keywords around, you know, Manhattan cannabis or Bronx Cannabis, or Queens cannabis, where we want to find that niche market and that maybe five to seven block radius or 10 block radius, wherever you are in Brooklyn, and where people are driving to.
And create campaign clusters around that, uh, and locations around that. So zip codes, neighborhoods, um, radiuses. So that's the first thing that we would do.
Tommy Truong: If I am, if it takes six months for me to see results, do I then start a website six months prior to opening day?
Dan Serard: Uh, I ideally, [00:36:00] yes. The difficult piece is you don't want, it's a negative experience if you're on page one for dispensing near Brooklyn. And people get to your website and are excited to shop, and you don't have anything to shop because you're not open. So establishing the backend of your website, um, for SEO campaigns, so you rank with the according keywords is important to do firsthand, but it's a fine line to balance, right?
So it, it's a double-edged sword in my opinion, but. The, the more campaigns you can start and get traction on, the better for when you do open, um, it's a more positive experience. You can always hide your website too, right? So you can, a lot of the times we can put no index tags on your website so you're not actually being found online unless someone types in your domain.
Um, and then we can turn those on when you open up and then SEO campaigns are in place, you're hitting the ground [00:37:00] running. And, you know, you're, you're more likely to move the needle there. So that's probably what I would recommend or it's what I would recommend.
Tommy Truong: Yeah, that's, that's right. I mean, there's no point in ranking if, if you're not live and customers will have a negative experience. Is there anything else regarding SEOs that you feel important that, that we didn't cover?
Dan Serard: yeah, I mean, you know, I think we covered a lot of stuff. Um. You know, the, the biggest recap there, it's, it's a moving needle. It's something that should always be worked on. It's not a set and forget it. Um, and it really does impact, I mean, number one revenue source that we see across the board when we look at dispensaries is SEO and organic search traffic.
And, and not only dispensaries, I mean, a lot of businesses rely, uh, on, you know, even B2B companies rely on a heavy SEO campaign because there are so many restrictions in cannabis where. You can't advertise like a regular business, so what can you do? You know, focus on organic traffic. Um, so [00:38:00] yeah, I think we covered a lot of stuff here.
That was, that was really good conversation.
Tommy Truong: Dan, if I were, and a, a two question, and I know that we're running out of time, what are some of really, really good things that somebody can do to bring, to make opening day, or I should say opening month as successful as possible?
Dan Serard: Yeah, great question. I think, you know, from a digital standpoint, having everything in place is important. But you know, for me personally, if you have your website up, you have some campaigns going. PR is gonna be crucial. Uh, and having some type of event, it doesn't need to be crazy because, you know, um, a lot of people aren't necessarily gonna know, or it's during work hours, whatever it is, you need localized PR in order to be successful for opening day.
Um, and finding an agency that you, you feel comfortable with, that really knows your area, I think is gonna be, uh, really important. And that's, you know, we. [00:39:00] We do some pr. Um, it's not our main focus, so that's just helping out as a business, not even talking about cannabis Creative group, uh, right now and what we do have partners, but, um, having that localized PR in the, I like to call it cannabis adjacent areas where it's not, you know, you're not advertising in a cannabis specific magazine.
You're targeting in like, let's call it New York Times or Brooklyn. Food stand where you can put flyers or, you know, uh, partnering up with a local adoption shelter and stuff like that where it's a good PR story. Um, and it's not flooded with cannabis dispensaries, but it's still localized to the area that you're in.
Tommy Truong: That I see. So prior to when should you start your PR program? That's number one. And I mean, it's, it's always hard to, it's always hard to measure ROI, but how [00:40:00] much should someone spend in a PR PRO program? Like if, if I was opening up a dispensary in Brooklyn, August 15th, what should I do? What should, what should a PR program look like?
Dan Serard: Yeah. I'm just looking at the date on my calendar here. Um, yeah, I, I think that's gonna be tough. Um, I think just like branding, just like the website you get, allow the proper time for buildup, right? Uh, PR is about building awareness and, um, developing a story. And if you don't have, um, the proper outlets now, I think a lot can get done within a month with a fast acting PR company.
Um, but if you don't have that internal structure. Um, to make sure that that grand opening is, is, you know, phenomenal then, um, it, it, it's a hard question to ask budget. I'm, I'm not sure within the budget, every PR agency is different, right? Um, it's hard to tell, you know, I would say a, a minimum to do it [00:41:00] right, you're looking at probably, you know, 10, 15, $20,000 over the course of, you know, a period of time, maybe three months.
Um, is, is a healthy budget. Um, but it also depends on if there is paid. You know, areas where you need to advertise in a local paper or a magazine or a publication depends on the area that you're in. Um, whereas we work with a lot of clients who are very rural, there's not much going on around them. So, is PR important?
Yeah, it's important to tell the, you know, 500 people you have in town, but you know, what does that strategy look like? It's gonna be very different than if you're downtown, you know, uh, uh, in Times Square.
Tommy Truong: Yeah, I, this may be a loaded question, and I don't know if you have enough time left to answer this, but let's say I'm three months in and sales are not where they should be. What are some things that I can do from a marketing or PR perspective that can drive traffic?
Dan Serard: yeah, absolutely. [00:42:00] Um, if you are not already working on SEO, do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Absolutely. Um, we, we look at really two campaigns here for driving revenue. When we work with dispensaries, we look at, uh, customer acquisition and customer retention. And how does that mix of campaigns attribute your revenue and what levers can we pull, um, to raise either both of those or one of those?
Um, we see a lot of campaigns in more rural areas have a great customer retention. Um, and they don't do a lot with customer acquisition, uh, whereas. Uh, location in Times Square might have great customer acquisition, but low customer retention. It's the nature of the beast and where you are and if you're in a urban, rural area.
So what we recommend as a mix is, uh, organic and paid search. So there's some paid campaigns, um, that, uh, we can do in the search engine. So when someone types in dispensary near me. We can actually pay for some [00:43:00] of those placements. It, it's difficult to do, and we, unfortunately, we don't have time to talk about the strategy in place, but you can actually pay for those rankings in the search engine while you try to own that space.
And that's very, very lucrative because SEO takes time. We, we rent the space in Google while we try to own it organically. And then at the same, you know, same thing with customer attention. If you're, if you're. Not seeing a lot of win back campaigns and you know, retention campaigns, that's the lever to pull.
So, you know, when you look at we've been open for three months, what can we do? Well, let's talk about your retention rates. Do you have high retention rates? Do you have good acquisition rates? Let's look at those. Let's look at the mix and then determine what levers we pull. Organic paid search and CRM marketing.
Tommy Truong: Got it. Yeah, I mean, I, I, it's, it's definitely, uh, a lot more complex than five minutes of conversation. So that being said, we gotta have you back on and talk about [00:44:00] this.
Dan Serard: Yeah, would love to. I'd love to tell you a little bit more about our strategy and some of the stuff that we do. I mean, overall, you know, we're seeing, you know, an average of around six x return on ad spend when people are advertising with us, so. Um, it's a great way to, to buy the placements while you try to own them.
It's a, I don't wanna call it a, a gap filler, but it's a, it's a quick increase in cash, right. Um, while you try to, you know, ramp everything up and, and get going as a business. So we'd love to talk about that. You know, our agency, we really have, uh, two models that we work with for dispensaries. We have our launch package, which includes what we talked about earlier with the branding and the website and the early SEO.
And then we have our, our boost package, which is revenue driving campaigns when someone's open up, right? How can we boost your revenue? And that's the organic and paid search stuff and the, the CRM marketing. So, you know, we've been working with dispensaries for probably over eight years now, and we're really identified how to help companies where, [00:45:00] where they're at and what stage they're at in their business and what, what makes sense for them and what does.
It.
Tommy Truong: Then before I let you go, how can our listeners find you?
Dan Serard: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, cannabis Creative Group is the agency that I'm a partner of, uh, www.cannabiscreativegroup.com. Uh, I'd love to have a conversation with you, um, talk about just how you're doing as business, what you're looking for. And you can obviously find me on LinkedIn as well. I'm very active there.
Um. And then we, we have a great event, uh, that we do called the THC Open in Massachusetts. So if you are looking for a, uh, a networking opportunity, uh, we put that on. We bring in a lot of our business partners, and that's gonna be September 12th this year up in Oxbridge, mass. And you can find me there.
Tommy Truong: Awesome. Dan, thank you so much.
Dan Serard: Thank you for your time, Tommy. I appreciate it.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Kaya Cast Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast in your favorite podcast or visit our [00:46:00] website.
